In our new episode of the Mastering CS, Candid Leader Insights podcast, Irina Cismas, Head of Marketing at Custify, discussed with Aaron Spence, Head of Customer Success at NoFraud.
What You’ll Learn:
- How past experiences impacted customer success
- How to scale and grow the business
- How to keep a customer-centric culture while scaling
- How to structure your team for success
Key insights and takeaways for CSMs based on the interview:
Building an Operating System for Growth: Scaling successfully requires a well-defined operating system that integrates a company’s mission, vision, and values into daily operations. This includes standardized meeting formats, clear employee expectations, and tools that reduce anxiety and increase efficiency.
People as the Foundation for Success: Hiring the right people and placing them in clearly defined roles with specific missions for the next 2-3 years is critical. This ensures accountability and reduces the need to hire multiple people to figure out unclear goals.
Balancing Growth with Realistic Expectations: Scaling operations often leads to challenges, including customer experience hits and inefficiencies. Organizations must balance long-term goals with the immediate need to solve problems effectively, often requiring a mix of human and technological solutions.
Grace and Realism in Leadership: Acknowledge that “nothing is perfect,” and focus on incremental improvement rather than perfection. This mindset fosters a healthier work environment and helps teams navigate challenges with less pressure.
Podcast transcript
Intro
Irina 0:00
Welcome to Mastering CS Candid Leader Insights, the podcast where we deep dive into the world of customer success with industry leaders. I’m your host, Irina Cismas and today’s guest is Aaron Spence, Head of Customer Success at No Fraud. Aaron, welcome and thanks for joining us today!
Aaron 0:18
Thank you so much for having me! I’m excited for this conversation.
Contributing to customer success no matter the job title
Irina 0:22
My pleasure. Your career has always been about solving problems and creating an impact, even when your roles weren’t labeled as customer success. How do you see this journey contributing to CS, regardless of the job title?
Aaron 0:39
Absolutely. So the early part of my career was in education, more on the service delivery side is what I like to call it. I was not a teacher.
I was not a traditional administrator. And so for me, there was always this understanding that I have to serve someone. I have to serve a customer, if you will.
And it was students or administrators or teachers. And so I was in technology deployment. I was implementing new systems.
And if you know teachers, they’re not necessarily the happiest when it comes to changing how they’ve done things for 30 years. And so early in my career, I learned about the importance of rapport building. I learned really early on about the importance of relationships, personal relationships, especially as we’re trying to understand the nature of what we’re solving.
And so even early on in my career, I was sort of doing customer success. But even then, that was 15 years ago, that was relatively new, a new concept that businesses were starting to kind of come to terms with. But for me, I always knew I had to do service delivery, and I had to do it in my own way.
And it just so happened that those skill sets perfectly aligned with customer success. And so I probably had a slightly faster career trajectory, because I already had some practice doing the work, even if the concepts weren’t called the same thing. So that’s kind of how I think about the arc of my career is I was serving a client, delivering a product, using rapport building, all those technical and soft skills to deliver a result, which was kind of the same as CS.
What does it take to scale and grow?
Irina 2:21
I do have some questions prepared later on about the skill set and the way you blend them in. Now, I want to start the discussion and tackle the subject of scaling, because everyone is chasing it, and you’ve actually done it.
And growing the revenue from 4 million to 31 million in just five years is no small thing. So I want to ask you, what did it take to drive that kind of growth? And what did you do?
Aaron 2:58
Yeah. Well, within those five years, I’d like to also point out we had two and a half years of a pandemic. And so that’s why I have gray in my beard.
But what it really takes, I think it, I try and reduce things to its core elements.
Irina 3:17
Yeah.
Aaron 3:17
And I think the first thing is we really had to get clear on how we were solving the problem for the client in multiple phases of their journey, right? And so the company was Design Pickle Creative Services. Well, small businesses and large businesses operate differently, but small businesses and creative services can grow rapidly.
So how do you solve for their pain points early on and scale alongside them? And so we had to do that. That was kind of number one, like, how can we deliver high quality as they are growing, not as we’re growing, but as they are growing, that’s kind of more important.
And then number two was internally, we had to get crystal clear on our value proposition and build an operating system, right? And so I’m, this is a really big thing I care about is operating systems within a business. Once we kind of crystallized and clarified and articulated that, we were able to have everybody kind of rowing in the same direction, you know, all the analogies you want, sports, music, whatever it is, we were doing the same thing in the same way.
And that mattered a lot. And it really reduced the amount of unnecessary friction we had in order to solve problems. We definitely tried a lot.
We moved fairly quickly, we broke things, we maintain no ego, all those kind of basic tenets, but it all came out of that operating system, which was powered by our mission, our vision, our values, our crystallized practices, etc. So you’ve got to figure out how you’re going to solve the client’s problem now and tomorrow. And you’ve got to make sure you’re operating well.
Irina 4:54
Let’s go deeper into the operating system. What does this operating system mean for you? And how do you make sure you have a proper one implemented?
It feels like it’s pretty important. And I want to make sure our listeners understand it well.
Aaron 5:12
Sure, sure. So I think a lot of folks, especially in tech, customer success, really OKRs is the thing that you hear a lot about, right? Everyone knows OKRs.
And then other people, if they’ve come from smaller, non-traditional businesses, they know of EOS through the book Traction, etc. There’s any number of modalities you can use. But at the end of the day, the operating system is giving your culture legs in the business.
And so your people are powered by their experiences and their expectations. So that’s kind of like my culture formula, right? Their experiences and their expectations mean the most.
And if we think about it as a hierarchy of needs, if they know what’s expected of them in multiple ways, and that is reinforced with experiences, whether that is one-on-one conversations with your manager, team meetings. We’re thinking about the expectations dialed out in SOPs. All of those things come together to reduce the amount of anxiety an individual has in their role.
It increases their confidence and their speed to action. And so we had employed multiple systems, and we used a hybrid version of EOS and OKRs. And we developed our own system.
You don’t have to develop your own. You can use a cookie cutter one, and you’ll find your way. But for us, understanding that and really ensuring that we lived day by day with our mission, vision, and values and our operating principles, those things drove everything we did.
And we were able to have significant success because of that, quite frankly.
Irina 6:52
I remember something which is somehow in line with what you said. I used to speak with a CEO who told me at some point, when you are at zero, act and have a mindset at 1 million. When you are at 1 million, act and have a mindset as in you are at 10 million.
And when you are at 10 million, act as in you are at 100 million. And this will basically help you prepare the foundation for what’s happening next. And I also, because you mentioned that operational system is very important, and I know that in smaller companies, in startups, this is something that’s overly neglected, where it’s like, OK, everybody needs to have a mission, vision, and value.
Let’s strategize it. Let’s spend one hour, one day in a meeting room. We come up with something, and then what’s next?
I often heard about CEOs and talk with CEOs that do not know how to, OK, now that we have it, regardless of what’s the words there, how do we actually give it back or send it to the people that are behind us? How do we actually implement it? How do we cascade it?
What’s your take? Because I know that you used to be also chief of staff, and we’ll talk about this. But I’m going to ask it now because it’s more in a context.
Aaron 8:23
Yeah, this is something I’m super passionate about. And so my experience as a CS leader and chief of staff go hand in hand. And I viewed the cascade as being a CSM for the business.
And so in order to make sure that the business is operating well, we cascaded this OS. Now, a lot of the time what will happen is people will take their mission, vision, values and put it on the wall behind them. Everyone has them memorized, all of that.
That takes hours. We took months to implement this. And so we actually brought in a consultant to help us articulate this throughout the organization.
Because there’s nothing better than a third party that doesn’t really give a damn about your ego to tell you the best way to do it. And also they’re giving you the shortcut because they have done it. And so we worked with a wonderful consultant, Colin Talley.
And he had scaled businesses to over $100 million. And he came and he said, the stuff you’re worrying about right now will get fixed with this. And so we could breathe and create the space for everyone.
And I can tell you, the CEO had no clue how to do this. We all learned how to do this. I did a lot more training with it through some certain courses as a COS.
But our company did not think it was worthwhile until they saw the fruits of it about six months later. Oh, meeting formats are crystallized. We even did that.
We even formatted every single meeting in the business. We’re like, wow, we know every system to go to every meeting. It reduces the anxiety.
It shortens the time for employee onboarding. It actually shortens the time for customer onboarding because you know the resources, you know how to train, you know how to do everything you need to do to be successful. And so we over indexed on it for a good year.
And I would say 2019 into 2020, we started in July 2019. And through July 2020, we did full implementation of this program through a year long program. And in the pandemic, because of that, literally because we had that, we could move pretty quickly and pivot to supporting the businesses we had.
And we actually had our largest growth during the pandemic, the early days. So from, I would say May through October 2020 is when we actually saw our most significant MRI growth.
Irina 10:47
So, from what I understand from you, in some situations, it’s important to consult with dedicated experts or companies that have already done this and are specialists in their niche. That would be one key point. The mission, vision, and values you mentioned form the backbone of the operational system and are essential. These should be established regardless of whether you’re working with a startup, a medium-sized company, or a large enterprise, as they play a critical role in aligning the team.
Keeping a customer-first mentality
This alignment can easily translate into business outcomes and have a significant impact. Now, I want to ask you, what other advice would you give to someone trying to scale operations at a growing startup while maintaining a customer-first mentality? What else do they need?
Aaron 11:50
Well, I am very passionate about people. And so I think the, the ingredient that has not been talked about a lot here are the people. We understand technology changes probably, you know, innovation on a large scale happens roughly every 36 months.
And so AI, for example, everyone’s been talking about AI for about three years, but finally we have companies that are really transforming the way we do at least information related work with AI now. Right. So we’ve been talking for a while.
I think with people, you have to hire the right people and get them in the right seat and give them a clear mission for the next two to three years. Right. That is not easy to do, but trust me, it’s worthwhile when you hire someone.
And let’s just say, because I had a conversation with them yesterday, director of marketing.
Irina 12:39
Okay.
Aaron 12:40
If you hire a director of marketing and you say to them, yeah, we want you to come in and market, they’re not going to know what to do. But if you very clearly say, okay, we are hiring a, an omni-channel director of marketing. We have channel partnerships here, here, and here that we want to scale for the next two years.
And we want to do these three other things. That person will, it will be very evident who that person is through the interview and recruitment process. And then when you hire them, they’re like, I know exactly what I need to do because I’m either comfortable doing it or I can step up to the plate and do it.
But in addition to that, if they don’t do it well, you know, that the accountability is there to move them out. It’s manageable. Right.
And so the people matter. And on the backside of all of this, you’re doing everything to make sure that people can do their best work. The other thing it will also do is you won’t end up hiring three people to figure out what you want to do.
You will know exactly the right people you’ll need to hire most of the time, right? It’s an art and a science, but you can turn it into mostly science. And so the people I think are the most significant part of this that haven’t been mentioned.
And then in addition to that, the one thing I always will say, yes, the technology you’re offering is great, but if your employees don’t have the best technology at their disposal, you’re asking them to, you know, build a wall with a spork. And that just does not work. And so you have to give them the right tools.
You have to give the people what they need to do their job. And that also kind of comes right back around in that virtuous cycle to their mission, vision, values, the operating system, and all of that.
Personal habits that help you stay grounded
Irina 14:16
There are multiple advices that you give through this answer. And I hope the people who are listening to this episode would be able to take them all.
Now, speaking about the personal habits, I might assume that scaling large operations at some point can be overwhelming. So what personal habits help you stay grounded and focused while overseeing complex projects?
Aaron 14:55
My wife keeps me humble and very grounded. You know, so family matters to me a great deal. Those those relationships matter.
I will say one thing that I noticed that caused me to pay more attention to this as things grew was how people treat you based on title.
Irina 15:16
Is that true?
Aaron 15:17
Is that true that when you scale to a certain size, so, for example, well, I would say title, age of the business, etc. And so, you know, when I started at the company, I was employee number six or seven. We could all fit in one small office if we wanted to.
By the time I left, we were over 100 full time employees. But in addition to that, our global workforce was over 600. And so when you go from the global workforce, like seven or eight people in global workers, 30, you scale that large, the lore around the original employees become something weird.
You’re chief of staff to the CEO. You’re the guy with the credit card at the bar kind of thing. And your role, yes, obviously transitions to being mentor, advisor, coach in a lot of regards.
But the thing that had to keep me grounded was remembering I was doing this for these people. And so I got rid of my ego as fast as possible. And I was the guy like, okay, if we’re at an event, I’m not going to be sitting up front or in a special section, you know, act like ivory tower syndrome is what I call it.
I was going to be boots on the ground, moving things around, helping my team do things and leading by example in that regard. Because it for me, you know, where I come, I come from Philly, we’re blue collar city. And so there’s no errors about it.
You can be successful and still help pick up trash, right? And so I very, very much live in that servant leader mentality. And so I was all about doing those things.
And those things also kept me grounded in a way. But really, it was making sure I had a good core at home. I was able to articulate my value.
But also, I didn’t take myself too seriously. Other people can take you way more seriously than you will. I’m giving myself like a good bit of grace and a lot of humor got me through a lot of interesting storms.
And then also working with and hiring people who understand that as well, right? Like this is a great journey for all of us. We should enjoy this live in the moment while we look toward the future.
And so it was it was it was really challenging at certain points, you’re visiting and then like deferential and people are trying to get access and you’re like, wow, this is we’re not that large of a business. But when they hear the impact you’ve made, or kind of the connections you have with this, it gets bizarre in some ways. And so yeah, I had to I stayed grounded in some fundamental ways, which I’m thankful for.
The impact of scaling CS Ops on customer experience
Irina 17:44
I often hear the saying, you have to be bad before you are good. So I have to ask that scaling CS ops means that customer experience takes a hit in the early stages?
Aaron 17:58
Yes, it’s very bad before it’s even mediocre. We had a lot of failures still have a lot of failures, right? So back back in the design pickle days and some other consulting days, yeah, it was oh, you’re absolutely horrendous.
The reason you know, you need to scale customer success is because the customer experience is taking a hit. And customers aren’t staying. You have to figure something out.
So it is not an easy role. But yeah, you fail a lot. I remember we tried a partnerships program.
I tried like multi year offering deals for contracts like, hey, we’re gonna get you in a five year deal for X amount like we did everything and just didn’t work. But similarly, internally, once we created our OS, and we crystallized what mattered to them and really built out the systems that mattered, immediately you start to see successes. So I say I did not feel comfortable as a CS leader that I had like a good product for two years.
And so if you’re building something from scratch, or you’re scaling something that you inherited, that’s been around for a year or two, it’s going to take a while to turn that corner. Conversely, I’m over at no fraud now. And I have an amazing team.
I work in an amazing business with great leaders. I’ve been at the business just just shy of a year. And we’re just turning the corner.
We had to do a lot of foundational work. We failed a lot. Yes, you’re going to see some of your larger logos churn.
And you’re going to have to answer for it. Sure. But at the end of the day, there are more lessons in all of that early on that later.
If you’re just like, Oh, well, they churn and you move on to get the next client, you’re never going to figure out the leaky bucket. And you’re going to end up being underwater faster than you could possibly imagine. So yes, you will make a lot of errors early on a testament to making I make errors every single day.
But as long as you learn from those errors, you’ll be far more successful.
Scaling the team vs the business
Irina 19:52
What’s the difference? I want to remain on the scaling side. What’s the difference between scaling the operations on the business side and scaling the team?
Are there any are the some of the things are the same? What’s different? What’s what’s the process when you try to scale the team?
What do you need in order to have a successful team scaled with as minimum impact on I would say on the team and also on the business? Because someone is taking the hit when you are trying to scale?
Aaron 20:25
Yeah, I think the scaling when I think of the word itself, I think of pressure.
Irina 20:34
Okay.
Aaron 20:35
And so it is going to be there’s going to be pressure in the business as you scale. It is exciting when you start to see your revenue increase rapidly. And then very quickly, things start to break, things start to not move as you expected.
And I would say like, that is important, both in recognizing operational scale, as well as people scale. Right. And so what will happen is you see a lot of problems breaking, a lot of things breaking, what is happening is you throw a human body at the problem, you start hiring like crazy.
And then what happens is you actually fix the problems, you gain more efficiency, and then you don’t need those bodies, you get frustrated that you’re wondering where your newfound revenue went. And it went to those people. And so I think it is, you know, what you’ll hear me often say is it is it is a mix of art and science, science, in a lot of instances, art, most of the time as well, you’ve got to figure out that balance.
So for us, when it comes to scaling, our product very much had human significant human elements. And so we scaled humans, we very much did. But we also knew that we couldn’t scale as quickly, we were prepared to deal with customer blowback, before we were just going to throw more bodies at the problem.
I don’t necessarily recommend that to everyone, because your business could be different. If you’re scaling, and it’s a true technical solution, you’re going to need to invest in better infrastructure. You should think about what are the foundational things you need as you’re scaling.
For us, we were human driven. Here at No Fraud now, we are we are human driven to a degree, but then very technically driven. So we can scale our core product.
I won’t say infinitely, but it does scale, we know the proportions in which that will scale. In terms of other elements and professional services we offer, there’s a limit. And so we have to figure out those things.
And we talk about product efficiency. So you definitely similar to what you were mentioning about the CEO who said, think about 10 when you’re at one, you have to do the exact same thing, you have to think what is the best possible solution long term for this. Right now.
And I tend to be long winded around this, because I think here’s the flip side of this. Here’s why this matters. If you can operationalize things, technically build your efficiencies, and suffer a little bit, do what doesn’t scale until it scales.
You don’t actually have to hire people and then lay them off. I’m very passionate about making sure you’re building properly, and not building for building sake or hiring for hiring sake. And I see a lot of companies, they will build the technical solution after they’ve had the people there, and then lay the people off.
And it’s like, well, if you just took six more months, float sales a little bit, your board might be a little upset, but float sales down just a touch, build these operational efficiencies, you can actually scale to x after that, because you now have the technical know how to do what you’re doing. So it’s about pacing yourself. And for me, again, my opinion, my experience would say that and I haven’t I want to test that, right?
It could it could be complete foolishness. But for me, if you’re if you’re scaling appropriately and finding your efficiencies when you can, you don’t need to go gangbusters on people. It also is just showing that you respect the people and you’re hiring the right ones to do the job.
We had we had some great infrastructure engineers that have great ones here. And they’re they think about these things. And they should think about these things.
What’s going to break when we get five x the volume? And if we’re not asking those questions, it means we don’t want to grow. And you have to ask those questions, you must ask those questions if you want to be in business.
And I often think of what’s the 50 or 100 year play, I’m not playing to be in business for five or 10 years, I’m playing to be in business for 50 or 100 years. And I know that the thing that I’m building now won’t last that long. But if the ethos can, that’s what’s most important.
Finding a balance between the people and the KPIs
Irina 24:19
I want to go back and ask you more about what it takes to be the Head of CS at NoFraud. How did you structure your team, and what steps did you take there?
Before diving into that, I want to ask if you’ve ever felt like a buffer between your team and senior leadership. How do you balance the two? In my case, in a former organization, I often felt like I had to pick a side—either the business or the people.
It was hard to find the right balance. Maybe I did something wrong, or perhaps there were broken systems within the organization. Let’s discuss this a bit.
Do you always or is there a balance between the business between the people and the business KPIs? Or you have to pick sides?
Aaron 25:22
I find most of the time there’s a balance. And I don’t generally have to pick sides. Because I believe we all have the same mission at hand.
And so for me, I don’t generally pick sides. But I will also say, I don’t want to work someplace where the people of customer success, and the mission of customer success are not valued. And so the leader doesn’t get like, if the CEO isn’t like customer success is one of the most important things we have here.
Then I try not to work there. Very, like very clearly will try not to write their companies that after I left design pickle, I went into consulting with the hope of possibly joining. And it was not a fit because they didn’t understand what customer success did.
Or they thought of it as a stopgap support system. And that is not the respect it needs. So for me, that’s kind of how I look for work.
But in addition to that, when I do join the team, yes, there’s obviously like, Aaron, you’ve got to hit these KPIs, you know, churn is up, what are we going to do? And what I what I will do is I will not walk with the harsh language to the team and say, this is what’s being demanded of me do the damn job. I will walk to the team and be like, we have an interesting problem we need to solve churn is up.
What are you seeing working? Or what are you thinking about? Or I’ll analyze things differently.
But I don’t I don’t internalize it. I don’t pass that on to the team. But I make sure that they understand like, this is what we have to solve for for the next 90 days.
And so I also work with leadership to highlight the right KPIs. And I think part of it is because I’m a former COS, I know how to think through the systems view. Okay, well, we can work on revenue, we can get that up.
But then also we have this other number, what numbers don’t matter right now. And I can prioritize the KPIs a little bit. So I had that leeway.
My CEO hearing this will probably be like, no, you don’t. But I think that instances, because we’re building the foundational elements. Now, when things are up and running and humming, that’s a very different conversation.
But if you’re in the building phase, you’re going to have to make trade offs from time to time. So I think that most of the time the KPIs matter until they don’t. But but the people in the team will have a better read, especially with our larger clients.
Our CSMs are the most foundational element to their success and ours. And so I will trust my team in those instances. And the good thing is, so will senior leadership.
So we’ve got a lot of trust and rapport built within customer success and within our senior leaders, where we get some leverage there. But there will be a day obviously, where the KPIs will have to be driven. But you know, those days tend to be followed by days where it doesn’t matter as much.
What to consider when joining a new organization
Irina 28:15
What is it that you mentioned earlier about the importance of working for an organization where your personal values align with the company’s values? You stated that the person who hires you needs to respect the role, understand customer success, and adopt a customer-first approach. What else does Aaron need to succeed in his role? Additionally, what are your requirements when considering joining an organization?
Aaron 28:52
Yeah, I have to know if the culture is Mac or PC because I a Mac man. I would say considerations for I love remote work. So that’s something I enjoy.
I love traveling for work and so meeting clients in cities. So for example, I live in Los Angeles and I’m currently office room in New York City. We have customer events and customer meetings this week.
And so I do enjoy those aspects of it. And I would say those are more of the perks than the core benefits.
Irina 29:24
Okay.
Aaron 29:25
I want to I want to learn from people. Okay. I think that the superpower of a good CSM is curiosity.
And I’ve never lost that. And for me, I want a manager and a boss and a leadership team that are deeply curious in whatever functional area they’re in is fine, but deeply curious, deeply curious about a problem. But also interested in being a player-coach with server leadership mentality as well.
And I would rather take a year and a half to find the right job than to just take a job for money.
Because at the end of the day, if I don’t have an experience alignment of values alignment, or even an operational alignment, it’s going to be much harder for all of us. And I just, I just don’t want to have to deal with that. And so for me, if the manager themselves are not curious, they don’t respect function, they don’t roll up their sleeves to help work alongside other folks that I know. It won’t be a good fit for me.
You know it is. It is part and parcel to the experiences that I’ve had at work, but also the kind of person that I am. I just I want to work with people I enjoy working with. You don’t have to be best friends with you, with you, then it’s going to be a better work experience for all of us.
How to structure your team
Irina 30:41
I don’t want to end this discussion without actually knowing more about Nofraud and about the team that you built there, because most probably they are very lucky to have you as a leader. So please do tell me about your team and the way you structure it, what type of roles, and responsibilities you have in the team. How did you adapt to those? Tell me more about that.
Aaron 31:11
I’ll start by sharing how I ended up at NoFraud. Fortunately for me, I met the CEO of NoFraud before he held that role. At the time, he was working at a company called Frame.io, and we connected through mutual contacts in 2020. We had several personal mentoring conversations, which left a strong impression on me. Years later, I saw on LinkedIn that he had taken on the CEO role at NoFraud. At first, I thought the name sounded unusual, but when I reconnected with him and he told me about the business, it caught my interest. I tucked it away in the back of my mind.
Fast forward a few months: I was exploring new opportunities and saw that NoFraud was hiring for a customer success role. I reached out to him, and he gave me the unvarnished truth about the company and the position. His deep respect for customer success stood out to me, and I decided to throw my hat in the ring. The interview process was rigorous—it wasn’t a favor or a shortcut by any means. It was a thorough, challenging process, and I had to confront the realities of the business. I saw both the strengths of the company and the areas where I’d need to roll up my sleeves and focus on foundational work in the first couple of years. That challenge excited me the most.
When I was offered the role, I quickly accepted. I inherited a couple of teams and want to give a shoutout to my Customer Success Managers (CSMs). One former CSM, Cynthia, recently left for an amazing opportunity aligned with her goals. Currently, the team includes Lisa, Charlie, and Eric, who bring a wealth of experience from both this business and others. They are incredible CSMs. Charlie, who I mentioned, is also our Scale CSM, leading the new programmatic operation we’re establishing through the end of this year and into next.
I also have a fantastic support team: Will, Raf, and Jamie. They’ve revolutionized how we manage inbound customer support, primarily through email, while also expanding into chat and phone support. Jamie, in particular, is not only a support expert but also a fraud analyst. She collaborates with Randy, our onboarding manager, to ensure smooth transitions for new customers. Jamie’s expertise in identifying fraud trends and helping customers utilize the platform is invaluable.
Our team is split almost evenly between customer success and customer support, with Randy serving as an onboarding manager and acting as a kind of solutions engineer. When I joined, there were just two CSMs, but we’ve grown, scaled, and evolved significantly. Currently, Lisa and Eric handle named accounts, while Charlie manages our programmatic operations. The support team focuses on general customer needs, and Randy onboard every client—whether they self-install or work through a salesperson.
Overall, we’ve built a dynamic and talented team, and I’m incredibly proud of the work we’ve done to grow and improve.
Irina 34:32
How did you end up to this formula?
Aaron 34:43
And so what the business needed is what articulated how the team was formatted. And for me, there’s areas of professional services that we aren’t tapping into just yet that we could eventually add on to the customer success operation, but the core business needs to be primary. Get your support straight.
IYou get your CSMs together, onboard people well, and you can retain them. Then after that, you get to get to the fun stuff. And that’s professional services for me, right? Professional Services, yes, is obviously another way to add revenue to the coffers, but I don’t look at it solely as that. I look at it as a way for us to get closer to our client and help them more.
And that’s the secret. That’s the secret sauce is professional services. CSMs are great, and they’re wizards. They’re going to be your generalists, and then as they grow, as they scale, eventually they’re going to have some deep expertise. And guess what? You can offer that as a service, until you build a product, and then you get it’s kind of this wonderful wheel, this cycle, right? And so like a lot of cycles, if you can’t tell,
Advice for CS professionals
Irina 35:44
If there is one key takeaway about customer success. It can be about how to build a great company, how to recruit an awesome team that you would want our audience to remember from this conversation, what would that be?
Aaron 36:09
I would say this is something I remind myself of every day, and it ties into everything: nothing is perfect, and that’s okay. Today, for example, I might have a long list of things I could focus on, and that’s okay. Nothing is perfect, and nothing ever will be. But if, every single day, you look at your people and are honest about that—you don’t expect them to be perfect—I think that mindset cascades in so many positive ways.
I’m human; I’m not a machine. I’m not designed to work flawlessly, and neither is anyone else. That grace you give to yourself and others has to start with you. My team and I all make mistakes. Honestly, I mess up more than anyone else on my team—they have far more knowledge than I do. Nothing is perfect, and we need to acknowledge that, move forward, and let go of unnecessary pressure. Doing so allows everyone to work better and more effectively.
So, that’s my core mantra: nothing is perfect, and it never will be. But keep working at it, and give yourself the space to breathe. That’s my advice to anyone—take a breather, accept imperfection, and keep going.
Irina 37:31
Thank you so much, Aaron, for sharing your insights with us today, and a big thank you to all our listeners until next time, stay safe and keep mastering customer success.
