In our new episode of the Mastering CS, Candid Leader Insights podcast, Irina Cismas, Head of Marketing at Custify, discusses with Josephine Kibibi, Manager of Customer Success at Workpay Africa.
Josephine shares more about her journey in CS, the challenges she overcame, and the strategies she implemented.
What You’ll Learn:
- The importance of regular client interactions
- Key metrics for customer success
- How to keep your team focused
- How to deal with the biggest challenges in CS
- How to prove the value of the CS department internally
Key insights and takeaways for CSMs based on the interview:
Transition to Customer Success from HR: Josephine’s background in HR provided her with crucial skills like communication, empathy, and problem-solving, which have been invaluable in her role in customer success. This highlights how skills from different fields can transfer effectively to CS roles.
Proactive vs. Reactive Approach: Josephine emphasizes the importance of being proactive in customer success, focusing on anticipating customer needs through personalized onboarding, continuous training, and regular check-ins to prevent issues from escalating.
Key Challenges Faced by Customers: Workpay Africa’s clients, ranging from small to medium businesses, often face compliance issues, especially in payroll and statutory processes. Josephine and her team address these through tailored support and proactive engagement.
Balancing Personalization with Scale: As Workpay grows, Josephine finds it challenging to maintain personalized customer success approaches while scaling operations. Retaining loyal long-term customers and adapting to rapid changes in technology and business are key concerns.
Podcast transcript
Intro
Irina 0:02
Welcome to Mastering CS Candid Leader Insights, the podcast where we deep dive into the world of customer success with industry leaders. I’m your host Irina Cismas and today’s guest is Josephine Kibibi, Manager of Customer Success at Workpay Africa. Josephine, welcome and thanks for joining us.
How are you today?
Josephine 0:23
I’m doing good, Irina. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to join you today! I’m looking forward to the discussion.
Starting out in CS
Irina 0:29
I’d love to start the discussion about your story. So how did you end up working on customer success?
Josephine 0:37
Well, okay, so I started my career in HR. This was, I think, about two or three years ago, which gave me, I believe, a strong foundation in understanding people and their needs. Over time, I realized that I wanted to have a more direct impact on customer outcomes, which led me to transition into customer success.
So I believe that the skill that I developed in HR, such as communication, empathy and problem solving, have been very invaluable in my role in customer success. So it might look like a very big change, but to me, those two are more related.
Irina 1:16
Speaking about roles, and I assume that because of your HR nature and the skills that you have, I’m going to go the discussion into exploring more of that part. But first, tell me about the current role at Workpay. What’s a typical day look like for you as manager of customer success?
Josephine 1:40
Okay, so as a manager of customer success, my day is a blend of both strategy and execution. I usually spend a significant portion of my time analyzing customer health metrics, meeting with my team to discuss ongoing projects, and collaborating with other departments as well, such as the support department, which mainly deals with the day-to-day system challenges that we get from the customers. And then I also collaborate with the products engineering teams, basically just to ensure that we are aligned on all customer goals.
So a typical day might look like checking in with key accounts, responding to emails, working on strategies for our most important KPI, which is customer retention, and basically just identifying opportunities for upsells and cross-sells as well.
Customer challenges and how to deal with them
Irina 2:32
Let’s talk about your customers. Who are they and what kind of challenges do they usually face?
Josephine 2:40
Yeah, that’s a very interesting question. We have a very diverse group of customers. This is from small to medium businesses. They’re all utilizing two major components that we have at Workpay.
This is the EOR, which is the Employer of Record Services, where we support companies to employ in countries where they do not have legal entities. So the process involves contract management, payroll processing, salary disbursements, and statutory compliance. We also have another solution, which is called the Global SaaS Solution.
So this is a platform that offers payroll processing modules, payment modules. We also have the leave module and time and attendance module as well. So the challenges we often face include navigating complex payroll processes, also staying compliant.
We’ve seen that most of our clients struggle with that a lot. They might be able to run payroll, yes, but compliance is a whole other thing. So typically, we usually address these items.
Irina 3:51
And how do you and your team help them overcome those challenges from your CS role? And what’s in your case, what’s the difference between being proactive and reactive? What does your team do differently versus a support organization under the umbrella of Workpay?
Josephine 4:12
Okay. So we mainly focus on proactive engagement in customer success. By that, I mean that we try and anticipate what the client needs will be.
So ensure that we understand what the client needs. And we also try and understand their businesses as well, so that we know how to leverage the Workpay solutions that we have. So this may include personalized onboarding.
So before we onboard you, we’ll have a discovery call with you and try to understand how you expect the system to work for you, and also how your business is, so that we know how to tailor the onboarding. We also offer continuous training. This is before, so that by the time the client starts to use the system, they already know what to expect from the system, and they’re already at least in tune with what they can use the system to help them with.
We also have regular check-ins. This is to address any issues that may come up before they escalate. So this is also being proactive.
Rather than waiting for the clients to reach out to us and tell us what issues they’re facing, which is the reactive part of things, we call them beforehand. So they may onboard today, and then we give them about seven days for them to acclimatize, and then touch them to find out what they’re going through. So basically, our goal is to be a partner in their success, providing the tools and support that they need to achieve our goals.
Irina 5:46
You mentioned the regular check-ins. What’s the frequency with whom you are organizing those type of check-ins? What works best in your case?
Josephine 5:58
I would say bi-weekly check-ins. Of course, we have different types of clients. We have clients that want to be checked up on on a weekly basis, others bi-weekly, others do not want to be checked up on.
They prefer to reach out to us in the event that they encounter a challenge. But usually, we say just check up on your clients on a bi-weekly basis, especially the ones who have recently, because they may be the ones that may face the most challenges in the event that they do not understand how to use the system. So we do bi-weekly check-ins, and then we also offer quarterly business reviews.
So every three months, you make sure you reach out to all the clients that you have on your portfolio, understand what they’re going through, look for upsells and cross-sells opportunities, and basically just try to at least be proactive enough to find out if there’s any issues that they need to be sorted out.
Client interactions
Irina 6:58
How do you organize those QBRs? And how do you make sure that you are relevant, still relevant, every three months, and you provide meaningful information in those QBRs, rather than, or how do you transform the regular check-ins into meaningful client interactions?
Josephine 7:20
Yeah, I believe most QBRs may come out as repetitive, especially if you do it on the same clients or on a quarterly basis. So we usually chain things up. So initially, we have a set number of questions that we need to know, such as what features are you using, what features do you think we should improve on, what countries do you think you’re going to end up expanding into, and such.
So those are the first questions that we ask during the first QBR. And then in addition, we’ll ask if there are any challenges you are experiencing, or if there are any sections of work that you think we need to build more on. Then, with the second QBR, now we ask a question.
So based on the feedback that you gave us last quarter, has anything changed? Because in customer success, in as much as we want to give our clients everything that they need, and to make sure that they’re comfortable enough to see the value that we offer, at the end of the day, there’s also the product team that needs to speak into the roadmap of the system. So we usually try to make sure that those two merge, so that we give the clients what they need, at the same time we make sure that we realize the product vision that the company has.
So the questions vary depending on where we are, and recently we’ve started targeting specific features. For example, we just launched the performance management feature, and then that is what we do a QBR on. So in as much as the client may not actually be interested in using the performance management feature, we just make sure that we ask them that question.
And if they’re not interested, we find out if there are other softwares that they’re using, or the major reason why they would not want to use our feature.
Irina 9:08
So if I got it right, basically your QBRs have one layer of building on what it was discussed previously, to keep the momentum, or it’s on features, and you try to promote new features, explore other areas in the course.
Okay, sounds like you are combining and using the QBRs to also do the adoption part.
Josephine 9:48
Yes, we are, because it’s the best way to actually find out if we need to add more features in the system.
Important KPIs to track
Irina 9:55
Let’s speak about the KPIs, and you mentioned earlier about the customer retention, but what else falls under your umbrella, and how do you keep track of them?
Josephine 10:09
Okay, so let me speak about other KPIs that you have as well. Like I mentioned initially, the most important one is customer retention, because at the end of the day, if you don’t retain your customers, then there’s literally no business. We also have another one on system optimization.
This is basically to ensure clients are reaping the maximum benefits of the Workday platform by utilizing all the core modules that we have. Another one would also be growth in revenue. This is mainly through upsells and cross-sells, so we get them to use a feature that they did not use initially, or we get them to adopt our system in another country.
We have a couple of stacks, tech stacks that we use to track this. This would be HubSpot, which we use for ticketing, and it’s also our main CRM at the moment. This HubSpot cuts across the different departments that you have, so engineering team has access to HubSpot, the product team does, and also the support and the success team.
We also use UserPilot, so UserPilots is mainly for automated onboarding, basically to get the clients to get to a point where they do not need us to train them, rather they can just log in, follow the prompts that are there, look at the product to us, and be able to successfully onboard themselves. Let me see, there’s another one as well called StackDeliver. For StackDeliver, we use it mainly to monitor product usage and at least mitigate churn risk, so it can be able to tell us if the client is at risk of churn or not, when was the last time that they subscribed or renewed subscription, and such.
Those are the three main ones that we’re using at the moment.
The CS team: structure, hiring process, and skills
Irina 12:06
Interesting. How is your team structured? Since you do have the HR background, I’m interested more in the skills that you have into your team.
What are the most critical ones?
Josephine 12:29
Of course, coming from HR, there’s one thing that you need to have for you to be able to identify with both the customers and with employees as well, and that is mainly empathy. If you need to put yourself in the customer’s shoes for you to be able to understand, so that’s one thing that I try to enforce in the team. Just try and look at this scenario from the client’s perspective so that you can be able to understand where they’re coming from and address their issues.
Because we know at the end of the day, if a client has a challenge, whether or not it’s a system challenge or it’s a personal challenge, they’re still right. That’s what we all see, in as much as it may not be the case. You need to be able to separate that.
So separate what the facts are and what is actually happening and what the client is expecting. Empathy is one of them.
Irina 13:29
Another thing that’s the hardest thing to test in an interview process, how do you test empathy into the interview process?
Josephine 13:40
It’s actually very difficult. What I try to do is give them scenarios, explain the scenario where a client was very upset and maybe the reason was actually not unwackling, and see how they’re going to maneuver that question and the solutions that they provide. So that’s actually the best way to do it, because you can’t be able to tell a person is empathetic just by how they speak.
Irina 14:04
Exactly. And what’s one of your scenarios and what were the answers that you received in an interview process that impressed you? Do you remember?
Josephine 14:21
Yes, I actually have one, quite recently. So the scenario was our system had a challenge whereby people were not able to, for example, access, and then a client comes to you and tells I need to complete my payroll and pay my employees by a certain date, but there’s nothing you can do. From where you are, it’s probably a technical issue, and you as a customer success person, there’s nothing more you can do.
So how do you explain this to the client and make sure that they still retain workplace services? So that was the question. So the answer that I got from the person was that, one, I should ensure that the client does not know that I do not have a solution.
So in as much as I may not be technical enough to know how to sort out the system going down, I make sure that to them, I have the utmost confidence, and I tell them exactly what we are going to do. So again, what they said next was that I ensure that the issue is going to be resolved in good time, and secondly, I keep giving them timelines on how far we are in terms of the solutions. So every two hours, call the client, send them an email just to reassure them that this is being worked on.
But what I liked about this person is that in as much as they told that to the client, deep down they knew that this issue may not actually be sorted in good time. And they were able to communicate that to the product engineering teams and get a solution for the client. And the solution in this case was they would be able to actually run the payroll on behalf of the client, whether on Excel or using a different system, just to make sure that the client gets the output that they require.
So what I liked about this is that it was actually very honest, and the person was willing to go above and beyond what they are capable of, just to make sure that the client gets what they need.
Irina 16:37
That’s the person in your current team? Speaking of teams, and not necessarily roles, but day to day things, I know that a lot can fall under the CSM umbrella, and you can get easily, not necessarily stuck, but with a lot on your plate.
How do you ensure that your team focuses on the right API and consistently drives meaningful impact? Because they can get busy, and at the end of the day, they solve or they were involved in a lot of fire drills, but they didn’t move the needle on their KPIs. How do you keep them on track?
Josephine 17:38
Yeah, that’s also a very good question. Especially right now, we have a lot of onboarding happening, and we have KPIs that we need to meet as well, and as much as we need to ensure that customers are constantly coming in. We have a clear set of OKRs that align with our company goal, and we regularly revisit this to ensure that we’re on track.
I had mentioned previously that we have weekly meetings with the team, whereby we go through the set KPIs that we set at the beginning of the quarter. Based on the major ones, we look at one. Maybe one KPI is an onboarding.
How far are we with this? Are there any challenges you’re facing, and what can I do to help? Then if there’s a KPI, like we need to retain clients, what is happening right now?
How many clients are you retaining? Which clients are you? Do you have a feel that they may be churning, or they are at risk of churning, things like that, and how do we address that issue?
I try to maintain a personalized approach as well. As much as we have the weekly team meetings, I also have one-on-ones with the team. As we grow, it’s important to also incorporate the softwares that we have just to monitor progress in real time as well, because I realize that you need to make sure that most of the data you have is also automated.
That way, it’s easy for you to pull the data and actually analyze it together and see where you’re doing well and where you need to make necessary adjustments.
Biggest challenges in CS
Irina 19:18
I want to change the focus from the team to you, and I want to ask you, what do you feel are the biggest challenges that you are facing in your role as manager of customer success? What keeps you up at night?
Josephine 19:35
That should probably be managing the balance between scaling our operations and maintaining a personalized approach to customer success. You find that as you grow, it’s crucial to ensure that our customers still feel valued and supported, and most especially the customers that started with you. We have customers who joined us like five years ago.
Those are the most important customers we have because, one, they’ve showed loyalty to us, which means we also need to be loyal to them as well. As the company grows, it’s easy to forget about them because you’re getting new customers, you’re getting new challenges, you’re going to new territories. Then it gets to a point whereby you forget about them, yet most of those customers are the reasons why we are here today.
That’s what I struggle with mostly because we are growing, really growing at the moment, and at the same time, we need to make sure that customers are talked to and they’re taken care of. Additionally to that, keeping up with the rapid changes that are happening across software as a service and also in the HR and tech world, and our other service, EOR also, they both require constant learning and adaptation, so I have to keep looking for new ways to incorporate all these changes that we have, and at the same time, still worry about what the customers think about us. So I’m often trying to make changes that will benefit our customers and ourselves in the long run.
How to prove the value of the CS department internally
Irina 21:27
Most of the work, at least a lot of CS leaders I’ve spoken with lately, mentioned that they find it very hard to sell internally the value of the CS department and move away from the idea that the CS is a cost center and prove that they are actually a revenue center. How is it in your case?
Josephine 21:57
Yeah, I’ve seen that happening in the beginning. I think I should have also mentioned some bit of background. So on the customer department, we had one major department which was a customer support department, so this is the team that majorly just was more reactive, like we wait for clients to call us, tell us what issues are facing on the system, and then we try to address.
So we did a very good job with that, but then we realized as we are growing, we need a different department that is mainly focused on account management and revenue growth, as you’ve mentioned. So because if we are constantly just trying to sort the issues that we have, then there’s no time that we focus on additional revenue that can be added to the team. So that’s why we decided to split the teams into two.
So now we have the product called the product support department, and then we have now the customer success department. So internally, we’ve been able to separate the two well, and everyone understands the different responsibilities for the two teams. They know that the customer success team is mainly focused on revenue and account growth and retention, and then the customer support team is focused on addressing customer challenges.
So for us, I can see that that part is clear.
Irina 23:23
Do you remember what was the trigger that initiated this change? What drove this change? This, I would say, separation between support and CS?
Josephine 23:38
Yes, that was account management, basically, because we were now growing and we were getting bigger and bigger clients who require an account manager who is constantly present from the beginning, which is from the onboarding process all the way to when they adapt the system for you. So it got to a point whereby in account management, you come across scenarios where the client is saying, when I came on board, I wanted to use payroll. But now that I’ve seen you have the leave management system, the term and attendance system, I want to actually take that up.
So rather than addressing that ourselves, we had to take that conversation back to the sales team so that they can discuss the costs, the invoicing, and such. And then we realized that this can actually be handled by the same team that is dealing with that customer, because when you’re dealing with a particular customer, you’ve already built a relationship. It becomes difficult for you to involve other people to start the conversation all over again.
So that’s where we realized that there’s a gap. So rather than moving them to a different department, let’s just retain the same conversation here, because it’s also going to be faster for you to close that client and make sure that they feel that you still have that personal approach rather than transitioning them. And then they also again have to come back to you.
So that was majorly the main trigger.
Pieces of advice for CS professionals
Irina 25:12
All my guests get this question before we wrap it up. Who has been your most influential mentor in your career? And what’s the best piece of advice they gave you that still resonates with you today?
Josephine 25:27
Very interesting. I will keep the name for now. However, what I learned from them is the importance of being customer-centric.
They emphasize that understanding and anticipating customer needs is the key to long-term success. Basically, the best advice they gave me was to put myself in the customer’s shoes and to approach every challenge with empathy and a solution-oriented mindset. So I should not approach the client to give them more challenges or to act like I do not know what the solution will be.
So basically, I’m here to offer them solutions so that they can become more comfortable in knowing that work, pay, or myself, I have their backs.
Irina 26:24
Thank you so much, Josephine, for sharing your insights with us today and a big thank you to all our listeners. Until next time, stay safe and keep mastering customer success.
